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Nursing Tug of War

January 7, 2010

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A new study by the Carnegie Foundation for the Advancement of Teaching recommends that the bachelor of science in nursing be required of all those seeking to work in the field.

Currently, many enter the profession with an associate degree in nursing. Instead of considering these community college graduates a part of the solution to the nursing shortage, the Carnegie study states they should not practice without first moving on to further study. Given its call to boost the minimum educational level for entry into the field, the study calls for those in the nursing profession “to agree on how to transform the current diverse pathways into a unified whole.”

Patricia Benner, director of the Carnegie study and professor emerita at the University of California at San Francisco School of Nursing, said such a change would hold community college nursing programs more accountable.

“The fact is that that the minimum amount of time a student has to spend in these ‘two-year programs’ is actually three years,” Benner said of community college nursing programs. “And, most often, it takes students four to five years to complete them because of over-subscribed courses, underfunding and a year of prerequisites before entering the actual nursing coursework. Also, many of these programs have long waiting lists to get in. … If the baccalaureate were made the minimum requirement for entrance into the field, I think the community college programs would at least have to be more honest about how much time it takes students to get through their programs and how much opportunity cost is there for them.”

Only 16 percent of community college nursing graduates go on to earn a baccalaureate degree, Benner noted. Since associate-degree nurses make up 60 percent of all nursing graduates, she argued that this makes for a severe shortage of nurses who are educationally qualified to seek advanced education and possibly become nursing faculty, of which there is currently a considerable deficiency.

“I’m not against community college nursing programs, and this is not a diatribe against community colleges,” explained Benner, herself a product of an associate degree program at Pasadena City College early in her career. “But something is out of whack when they get a degree that doesn’t allow them to go on to advanced practice. It’s just not adequate to meet current demands.”

The Carnegie study calls for community college nursing programs to seamlessly articulate their programs at the two-year mark with an affiliated baccalaureate nursing program. Benner noted that these transfer initiatives should enable nurses to complete baccalaureate degrees in about four and a half years.

“It would be difficult to lose the education capacity of the community college for nurses, but the current system is in need of radical reform and redesign so that nurses are better prepared for the current demands of their practice,” wrote Benner in an e-mail, adding that the Carnegie study also suggests that students be provided with more articulated pathways to earn the master of science in nursing within 10 years of earning basic nursing training.

Advocates for community college nursing programs, however, take issue with some of Carnegie’s policy recommendations.

“I teach in a rural setting and a main advantage of offering a two-year RN degree is that it puts the nurse graduate to work in a shorter amount of time so they can support their family,” wrote Kim Tinsley, a member of the National Organization for Associate Degree Nursing’s Board of Directors and a nursing professor at North Arkansas College, in an e-mail. “They cannot afford to attend four years of B.S.N. classes and not work. The A.D.N. student does sometimes take up to four years to complete their degree, but it is due to the fact that they are working (sometimes full time) and have a family to support. The average age of our student is 27. The majority of our students are either married with a family or are a single parent. They cannot afford the time nor resources to attend a four-year program.”

It is the official position of the N-OADN that a baccalaureate degree in nursing should not be required for “continued practice beyond initial licensure as a registered nurse.” Tinsley explained that any change to the status quo would violate the choice community college nurses have in whether they want to pursue further education.

“Access is a huge barrier,” Tinsley wrote. “We believe in continuing education but it should not be a mandatory requirement. The B.S.N. and the A.D.N. graduate take the same [National Council Licensure Examination] upon graduation. There is no valid research that shows a safety discrepancy between levels of education. Many A.D.N. graduates assume bed side nursing positions and provide direct patient care in a variety of settings, not just the hospital setting. They also fill management positions. There is no evidence that they are not prepared for current practice.”

Patricia Smart, secretary for the N-OADN board and nursing professor at Delgado Community College, echoed a similar sentiment. She expressed her displeasure with the Carnegie recommendations, arguing that requiring all nurses to have baccalaureate degrees “would cripple the nation’s supply of nurses at the bedside.”

Though acknowledging it is likely the most controversial recommendation in the Carnegie study, Benner said the Carnegie study does not dwell on the associate-versus-baccalaureate degree issue. Among other recommendations, it also encourages programs across the board to “broaden the clinical experience,” “vary the means of assessing student performance” and “redesign the ethics curricula.”

“We want to upgrade and improve the education of nurses whether they’re in associate or baccalaureate programs,” Benner said of the goals of the study’s authors.

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Comments on Nursing Tug of War

  • Nursing education or How best to Eat Your Young...
  • Posted by feudi pandola , FAO on January 7, 2010 at 8:00am EST
  • Once again, the so-called leaders of the nursing profession are proving their ignorance and their incompetence. Once again, diploma schools of nursing in the state of Pennsylvania have proven that they provide a vital, AFFORDABLE way for a young person to become a nurse. This year, our diploma schools have again acheived higher pass rates in the aggregate than all of the associate degree programs, and most of the BA programs in our state...at about 2/3 of the cost of a BA.

    Since 1975, there has been a systematic plan to do away with all diploma and AD nursing programs throughout the nation. This latest assault comes at a time when the need for nurses will never be higher due to the generational die off of the boomer generation - the largest age cohort in the history of America. And for what purpose, other than to drive up the salaries of nurses by driving down the supply of them.

    Idiocy!

  • odd study
  • Posted by Mark on January 7, 2010 at 9:45am EST
  • What I don't understand is how the Carnegie Foundation can presume to make recommendations for professional education programs after studying only those programs rather than the workplace outcomes. Professional education is not an end in itself: its goal is to produce competent professionals. Does it? They don't appear to have looked at that.

  • Posted by Gary Davis , Principal at Board Solutions on January 7, 2010 at 11:00am EST
  • When the Illinois Nurses Association tried to push this through, the legislators called the hospitals and doctors back home and soon learned that such a requirement would create havoc in the system and deprive the public of some of their most proficient nurses. ADN graduates regularly outperform baccalaureate program nurses on national nursing practice exam. Much learning hath made the Carnegie Foundation folks mad.

  • In Canada
  • Posted by Stephen Trachtenberg , Professor at George Washington on January 7, 2010 at 11:00am EST
  • In Canada they have been educating MDs in three years for some time. Does it take more time to train a nurse than a medical doctor?

  • RN associates degree
  • Posted by Dr. Rai , Career Advisor - Student Services at Atlantic Cape Community College on January 7, 2010 at 11:00am EST
  • Well, if all students who wanted to be a nurse were coming directly from high school and heading directly into a BSN program, maybe that recommendation would make sense. However, what about those who had not considered college, and thus did not have the "college prep" studies in high school? They often need remedial coursework before beginning the college-level classes. What about those who are forced to try reentering the workplace due to the loss of jobs in our current economy? Many of these individuals have not been to school in more than ten years.

    The need for registered nurses will be stronger as the boomers retire from the workforce. Do not deny students the opportunity to work at the associates degree RN level. Many of the students I advise are working and raising families. They can only attend classes on a part-time basis. That is the biggest reason they take longer than two years to graduate the program.

    If you will check, you will find that quite a few of the four-year schools have articulation agreements with community colleges to transition students in the BSN programs, if they choose to do so. Do not make the choice for them.

  • Posted by Aware and scared on January 7, 2010 at 11:15am EST
  • Sorry feudi, but the idiocy is the nursing profession's insistence that one can become a nurse in a myriad of ways.

    I admire the profession for the manner in which it went from (unjustifiably) handmaidens to medicine to independent practice peers in about 20 years.

    However, regardless of the crucial and honorable role nursing plays in health care, they should decide on what that role is, what the education/training is, and stick to it.

    We now have CNAs performing the duties RNs used to, with the RNs moved up to "supervisory" positions. Many RNs have jumped ship from direct nursing care to become nurse practitioners. Now the nurse practitioners are insisting that one earn a DNP (Doctor of Nursing Practice) to qualify.

    We used to have LPNs who supposed did the "hands-on" work. So how did we end up with RNs trained via nursing schools (1 - 1.5 years training), community colleges (1.5 - 2 years), and senior colleges (4 years)? How did the LPN work become CNA (180 HOURS of training) work?

    No doubt we need people to continue to provide crucial services of nursing.
    However, given the increasing complexity of health care, shouldn't we be focusing on standardizing a robust training program, not finding ways to water it down?

  • Same ol', same ol'
  • Posted by B.J.S. on January 7, 2010 at 11:15am EST
  • This ADN/BSN matter has been debated for more than 30 years. Were it to pass, would it raise wages for BSNs?

    The more things "change" -- the less they do.

  • Job Creation for Doctoral Programs
  • Posted by Monica Manning on January 7, 2010 at 11:15am EST
  • It is hard to believe that the Carnegie Foundation has allowed the publication of this biased report. In the recommendation regarding the baccalaureate as entry degree, the lack of objectivity is stunning. The statement that this recommendation is made to force community colleges to be more honest is hardly a sufficient basis for reducing access to the nursing profession and increasing demand for baccalaureate degrees. There is no question that community colleges must be honest about the length of their programs. And it is right that nurses graduating from associate degree programs have access to advanced education. If there are problems in these two areas, there are multiple solutions that fall short of this group's contrived response. Occam's Razor applies -- the simpler solution that successfully addresses the problem should be invoked. More to the point, community colleges do not require doctorates for their teaching faculty. Graduate nursing programs at universities are the primary beneficiaries of this recommendation. It would create increased demand for more faculty in institutions where doctorates are required and therefore, increased demand for enrollment in graduate nursing programs. This is not about serving students or society which I would have hoped was the Carnegie Foundation's purpose.

  • Nursing Wars Redux
  • Posted by Sheldon on January 7, 2010 at 11:30am EST
  • Mark's comments ("odd study") is the most cogent and relevant response to the Carnegie Foundation's recommendations. Professional education--in nursing, teaching, or any other field--is, indeed, not an end in itself. This, of course, is not what the professional associations think, nor is it what many of the program administrators think.

    Nursing has been down this road before, and the advocates for baccaulaureate degree entry have never been able to pull off their dream of shutting the door to diploma or associate degree graduates. The fundamental question that should be asked--as a justification for any restriction on entry to a profession--is the tradeoff between gains and losses. Does raising the barrier to entry produce measurable differences in patient outcomes? Are nurses prepared by the different programs able to demonstrate measurable differences in the knowledge, skills, and abilities relevant to practice?

    George Bernard Shaw noted that "all professions are conspiracies against the laity" and economists who study the professions understand the impact of entry barriers and restrictive practices on those who must pay for services and on the incomes of those who deliver the services. The nursing profession has done an excellent job over the past several decades to standardize and improve the quality of education, to standardize and improve the quality of licensing exams across the states (if only teacher education would act so responsibly and uniformly!), and to raise the status of the profession.

    Those who advocate higher entry barriers should produce evidence to support their case. If the evidence exists, the proposed change makes sense. In the absence of evidence presented in a way that allows it to be examined and refuted empirically, the case for restrictive entry is ideological and self-interested.

    Sheldon

  • Nursing Tug of War
  • Posted by Robyn , Assistant Director of Student Activities at Alvernia University on January 7, 2010 at 3:00pm EST
  • Why shouldn't the continuing education be built into the career track of nurses? Teachers in Pennsylvania are required to take additional graduate level coursework over time in order to maintain their teaching certificates. Nurses should be able to start working at the lower levels, and then be required to continue their education and training, even if it's only one course at a time, as they continue to practice. Perhaps this system would also encourage more senior practitioners to become educators to continue the field. It is not a solution that could be instituted over night, but neither could a requirement of a bachelors degree for all nurses.

  • This is news?
  • Posted by Tired Old Nurse , Associate Professor/Counseling at Texas Southern University on January 7, 2010 at 3:00pm EST
  • I started my education in an AD Nursing in 1975. At that time several groups were trying to shut down all but BSN programs. Some folks were advocating the MSN for initial practice. I was straight out of high school, but most of my peers (even then) were second career folks, post military, or already had BA degrees in another field. Our local ADN programs have a similar student demographic some 35 years later

    There continues to be a shortage of RNs and faculty for Nursing programs. How does raising the educational (not practice competency) bar for both help this shortage?

    A better solution would be more and cheaper ladder programs to move LPN/LVNs to RNs, and ADN and Diploma Nurses to BSN, and more support for training nursing faculty. As a profession we aren't just "eating our young," we seem to be trying to stop the young from ever existing.

  • It is about money.
  • Posted by Tim , RN - ADN on January 7, 2010 at 3:45pm EST
  • This sounds like healthcare reform for the professional education hiearchy. Perhaps we should send it to the house, then the senate, back to the house, and back to the senate to find out what politicians think we should be doing. It is nonsense. The quality of an RN does not lie in the shadow of a degree but rather the character of the individual. I have known as many inept BSNs as I have competent ADNs. In the end, it is all about where the money flows, just the same as healthcare reform.When I obtained my associate degree back in 1999, the entire degree only cost me 5,000 dollars through an LPN to ADN bridge program. It would be more than 5 times that amount now in only a year plus a decade. That would be the same as a $10,000 car in 1990 costing you $50,000 today. Can you imagine a $50,000 Yugo? How much does a BSN cost to obtain versus an ADN and can you prove patient outcomes are any worse when they are taken care of by an ADN as opposed to a BSN? If education were more affordable and a focus then we would not even be having this discussion. The fact is education has become just as inflated as the cost of healthcare. Someone is getting rich.

    It is quite the riot when someone thinks they can judge the worth or professionalism of an individual based on a degree. It is not about the degree, it is about where the money flows.

  • Here we go again....
  • Posted by Nancy , RN,BS at Yale on January 7, 2010 at 4:45pm EST
  • Here we go again....Nursing imploding on itself. Wasn't this what we debated 30 years ago. Who can afford a four year degree these days. Many RN's that I have worked with started with a AD degree and are great nurses. Many have advanced their degrees to APRN's, MSN in Educatiion and Adminstrative positions. All with the help of the institutions that they work for. "Stop the Insanity" and find another debate worth discussing.

  • two year Nursing
  • Posted by Keith Lipke , Public Speaker at Brown Mackie College on January 7, 2010 at 6:00pm EST
  • I work for a private school in Ft Wayne, IN and we provide degrees that fit our students are also working single parents, or people that can't afford to attain a four year degree as well as take care of children and work part time. We made come great strides and changes to people's lives because of the convenience we offer in one course a month scheduling and the shortened time it takes to get a degree. We also require them to attend clinicals that provide real-world experience and work before they graduate.

    Keith
    www.keithlipke.wordpress.com

  • Nurse Wars
  • Posted by Cares about Nurses , Grad Student at WSU on January 7, 2010 at 8:30pm EST
  • When this year's crop of nursing students graduate, will it experience the same problems as last year's. Many hospitals posted "Not Accepting Applications from New Grads." Seems like it makes more sense to go back to old hospital diploma programs where nurses experience the real world of nursing education. Who cares if a nurse has read Chaucer or can write a term paper about Shakespeare? I'd prefer he/she has more on the job training.

  • Oh my
  • Posted by N.D , regional nursing education coordinator at The Community Foundation of the Great River Bend on January 8, 2010 at 4:15pm EST
  • I would like to think that nursing as a profession needs to communicate and make these decisions for ourselves, this is where involvement in local and national nursing associations should make the difference. If all ASNs went on strike there would be no care given in the hospital, if I am not mistaken they account for nearly 60-70 of the nursing workforce. I do believe that as a practicing nurse they need to do what is best for them and their families and maybe advanced education is not what they seek. For those of us who do seek advancement BSN, MSN,PhD etc there needs to be some rewards along the way. I got nothing but the feeling of accomplishment for my MSN degree. In my hospital ASN, BSN and MSN direct care staff make the same amount. If I had to do it all over with less schooling to be the same nurse I am today, I would choose the ASN, advancing my degree little by little with tuition reimbursement, paying nearly nothing out of pocket. However, the one thing a higher degree will give is the ability to get the promotion over someone who does not have the higher degree. I do agree with others that the degree does not make the nurse. On another note with the encroaching shortage/crisis this is probably not the time to make snap decisions in educational requirements--Thanks, N.D.

  • Re: Same ol', same ol'
  • Posted by Ann Schide , Associate Porfessor at Chattanooga State Community College on January 8, 2010 at 6:15pm EST
  • I would like to add that it has been longer than 30 years for this argument of at what entry-level of education yields the right to hold an RN. My mother graduated from a 3-year diplomma accelerated program in 1943. The program was accelerated due to the need for RNs during WWII. The interesting historical factoid is that when I decided to become an RN, my mother mandated that I graduate from a 4-year School of Nursing because of the argument post-WWII when RNs were not as needed. Entry level to the profession of nursing would be a 4-year graduate in order to attain the moniker of RN. Hmmmm....been around for a while.

    As an associate-degree fauclty member, I do not fear the rhetoric. I fear the system of how we are educating the current generation of RNs. No longer do our students come to us with the altruistic desire to help people. They are quite honest about the attractive pay to be acquired. AND that attractive salary increases with education. My students are very aware that advanced degrees get mo' money. They are upwardly mobile before entering the program!

    BTW my 4-year alma mater does not even offer a BSN and has not since the 80s! Interesting?

  • Praise for the Carnegie Report
  • Posted by AACN at American Association of Colleges of Nursing on January 9, 2010 at 7:45pm EST
  • The American Association of Colleges of Nursing issued the following press release in support of the Carnegie Foundation's new report on January 8, 2010: http://www.aacn.nche.edu/Media/NewsReleases/2010/carnegie.html

  • Hospitals will not hire LPN's
  • Posted by Jennifer , LPN- Graduate of Chattanooga State on January 10, 2010 at 2:30pm EST
  • I graduated from the LPN program in 2004, and started out in a physicians office a few months later. I have worked for 3 different specialists/surgeons as a nurse, but have been in the medical field as a phlebotomist and MA since I was 17. My problem now is not being able to find a decent LPN position anymore in Chattanooga. The physician's offices want to pay an LPN what they would pay a CNA or MA, and 2 out of our 3 hospitals have told me that they RARELY hire LPN's. The positions that they DO hire LPN's for are mostly non-patient care, so there really isn't a need to hire a nurse. I planned on going into the RN transition program after I worked as an LPN for a year, but the need to work full-time came first, as it still does. Also, the pre-requisites I had completed YEARS ago, have expired and now need redone before I can even apply to the transition program, and I'm not even getting started on lack of scholarships or non-loan funding to help LPN's... I am 32yrs old, currently seeking a decent paying, FULFILLING position as an LPN so I can afford to return to school, and hitting obstacles EVERY step of the way. I am sick of being treated as if LPN's aren't "REAL" nurses in this community. MOST of us are VERY intelligent and need to utilized and treated with the same respect as an RN. Sorry for the long post, but maybe one of you can offer me some helpful advice or even a good job lead! Thank you!

  • Posted by Dave , Division Chair on January 11, 2010 at 3:00pm EST
  • I have been a nurse for 25 years and I have heard the BSN requirement since the day I graduated 25 years ago. I have a Master's degree in Administration and another Master's degree in Nursing and I teach at a Community College. If we would put all issues aside and decide as a profession what is best we would clearly see that nursing is becoming obsolete. We need to make entry into practice a BSN just to stay current with our healthcare partners and truly remain the patient advocate. Do I believe in our ADN and diploma prepared nurses? Yes, I do but we also need to remain competitive from an educational point of view. This following statement will be quite controversial but I believe this is what we need to do in nursing. We need to eliminate the role of the LPN/LVN and still allow ADN as entry into practice but a person would need to attain a BSN within 10 years. We would then have two levels of RNs, the technical role and the professional role. As a profession we would have to define the two roles or determine work settings but we need to make a decision and then implement it before we end up in planned obsolecence.

  • The time is now (again)
  • Posted by Pat RN , Nursing Faculty at BS Program on January 11, 2010 at 4:15pm EST
  • Nurses need a BSN....to be the best nurses.

    In NYC, a first grade teacher is required to have a BS degree. Within 5 years of his/her employment, a masters degree is required. That is to teach first grade. What do NYC public schools know that nurses are not comprehending? Education increases a person's ability to do work in an increasingly complex field. Nursing is the ONLY professional degree that let's folks enter the profession without a bachelor's degree. I saw the writing on the wall when I completed a nursing diploma 30 years ago. I continued my education and now have a doctorate. It was not easy, but it made sense to me as the demands of my profession indicated the need for more education. Most AD/Diploma faculty that I know are in support of the BS degree for nurses. I cannot understand why some others are failing to get on board. The train has left the station. Let's stop holding nurses back from pursuing higher ed and being the best that they can be.

  • Canadian training
  • Posted by JLR, RN at Drexel University on January 11, 2010 at 7:00pm EST
  • Stephen Trachtenberg says that in Canada, doctors get 3 years of education, which is less than the proposed 4 year education for nurses. Stephen, you need to check your math: Canadian MDs get 7 years of education (4 years undergrad, plus 3 years medical school), which is actually 3 years MORE than what is proposed for RNs.

  • Guidance needed to increase AD RN graduations from MSN programs
  • Posted by Roxanne Fulcher , Director, Health Professions Policy at American Association of Community Colleges on January 12, 2010 at 12:15pm EST
  • When a study is presented as credible research on a issue as important as how our nurses are prepared – or should be prepared – one would expect the experts to get their facts and information right. Yet the study released this week under the Carnegie Foundation’s name gets fundamental facts wrong and presents other misleading information. (See the American Association of Community Colleges Web site for a detailed statement about the Carnegie publication: http://www.aacc.nche.edu/newsevents/News/articles/Documents/nursign010810.pdf.) recent federal data indicate close to 21 percent of associate degree RNs (AD RNs) (rather than the 16 percent cited) earn bachelor’s degrees in nursing (BSNs). An additional 54,000 earn master’s degrees in the science of nursing (MSNs) and 28,000 earn master’s degrees in non-nursing disciplines. Also misleading is the suggestions that the BSN is the only pathway for an Associate Degree RN to earn the credential to teach nursing. Approximately 163 graduate-level RN to MSN programs offer enrollment to AD RNs without requiring a BSN. Furthermore, while Brenner states that AD RNs take four to five years to complete their degrees due to over-subscribed courses, underfunding, and a year of prerequisites before entering nursing coursework she fails to recognize the opportunities community colleges afford these students: prerequisites that prepare them for nursing study, affordable tuition, and flexible scheduling to meet the socio-economic and educational challenges community college students would face regardless of what type of institution they chose for nursing education. Given the inconclusive evidence about the added value AD RNs achieve in attaining BSNs,a much needed study would be one that delivers recommendations for increasing AD RN graduations from MSN programs to increase both numbers of nursing faculty and specialist workforces to meet current and growing needs.

  • Diversity and Rural Healthcare
  • Posted by Diane Osterhaus Neefe , Dean of Health and Public Safety at Western Technical College on January 13, 2010 at 12:15pm EST
  • I would caution policy makers to modify policy not looking at a specific issue, but rather to look broadly at the many complex and intertwined issues a decision such as this would have on both diversity and rural healthcare. First, there is well-documented research that indicates that a a larger proprotion of minority students attend two-year colleges as compared to four-year institutions. All of higher education is trying to address recruitment and retention issues among minority students and we all have a great deal of work to do in that area. That being said, the reality of pursuing a BSN degree diminishes quickly for minority students - hence a two-year degree is much more attainable. Shutting the door on two-year nurses only adds to the frustration of healthcare employers trying to develop and maintain a workforce that is reflective of their communities and the global society in which we live.

    Second, as healthcare faces a nursing shortage, and rural healthcare faces even greater challenges, it is the two-year colleges that are best positioned to partner with local communities to address their shortage issue. Typically, two-year students tend to be more "place-bound" than students who typically pursue a four-year degree. For this reason, two-year graduates are more apt to remain in the local area after graduation and seek employment.

  • Ivory Towers Vs. Hospital Towers.
  • Posted by Tim , RN at Medical Center on January 17, 2010 at 1:30pm EST
  • This is an interesting story. I have been in the nursing world for 21 years now and took the route of LVN-ADN-BSN-(NP?). My most meaningful and applicable educational experiences occurred while working in hospitals as an LVN/LPN for 15 years. I do not feel that my LPN-ADN program taught me much at all except for some vague notion of "think cellular". We are usually so busy on the floor that thinking cellular is a cruel joke.
    The ADN-BSN experience was rather enjoyable, but taught me even less about bedside care than did the ADN program. It taught me about research, organizations, and policies- all of which were very helpful and educational.
    I recall reading an article about the morbidity/mortality rates of ADN educated nurses vs. BSN/MSN/DNS educated nurses and was stunned to see that the negative rates for ADN trained nurses was about twice that of the loftier group. This, of course, was thought provoking. I can only suppose that there are virtually no nurses with MSN/DNS degrees working bedside care, so the study is a bit flawed. However; I have observed how much better prepared (hit the floor running) new BSN educated nurses appear to be than their ADN counterparts. Possibly it is as simple as they spend more time at the bedside taking care of more patients than do their Community college peers.
    It should come as no surprise that academia would suggest that more education is better for nursing. Come on now. Never forget the phrase "that those who cannot do, teach". Surely you have noticed as well as I that a vast majority of our professors would not be able to do actual bedside nursing- it would kill them.
    I also understand the desire of academia to give nursing a better reputation by having the entry level into the profession is that of a BSN degree, but honestly with the looming and critical nursing shortage beginning in 2012- they truly need to get real. It is amazing, when attending conferences or lectures, to watch all these big-wigged talking heads talk about more and more education when good nursing is more about hands-on care that is mostly learned at the bedside while working. Maybe this 3 year versus 4 year debate can be carried on in earnest after the critical nursing shortage starts to hopefully subside in 2021.

  • N-OADN's statement on the Carnegie report
  • Posted by Linda Miles, EdD, RN , President at N-OADN on January 20, 2010 at 10:15am EST
  • The N-OADN board supports the statement released by Dr. George Boggs, AACC President. The N-OADN position statement addresses the mandatory BSN. While the N-OADN board supports continued education for nurses, they believe the research is inconclusive on nursing education level and do not support the BSN for entry into practice. Two examples are Sales et al. (2008) and Ridley (2008), both research found no correlation existed between nursing education level and patient outcomes. The board does believe there should be opportunities available for nurses to advance their degrees beyond the associate degree.

    N-OADN believes that community colleges will continue to have a vital role in the educational preparation of nurses and because of this should be included in discussions concerning nursing education. Community college nursing programs support continued education for their graduates to baccalaureate and masters. Currently over sixty percent of new nurses are educated at community colleges. Even though the current nursing shortage is not as critical, data continues to reflect a shortage of nurses. Until the economic downturn, nursing programs could not produce enough graduates to meet the demands of health care. Nursing has been identified as having the largest impact on health care delivery potentially reducing access to citizens in the U.S. Increasing the educational requirements for entry into the nursing profession would fuel the nursing shortage and could have a potential crippling effect on the health care system.

    Most associate degree nursing programs will agree that it takes a graduate three years to complete and because of unforeseen circumstances sometimes may take even longer. Most baccalaureate nursing programs take five years to complete and many times due to unforeseen circumstances may take students even longer. Even though education does increase ones knowledge, skills and abilities, so does experience. With the current educational model, an associate degree nurse enters the workforce after two or three years and provides patient care while continuing to take courses for an advanced degree if he or she chooses. The majority of associate degree nursing programs inform students of career ladder opportunities in nursing and encourage advanced education from the time of admission.

    There have been many surveys distributed to collect data on the interest of associate degree and diploma nurses continuing their formal nursing education. A survey was distributed by the N-OADN president to elicit information concerning the BSN or higher level nursing program. Graduates and students who obtained their initial education in an associate degree or diploma program were surveyed on their interest for enrolling in a BSN or higher level nursing program. Eighty-nine percent responded positively indicating that they planned to enroll within a one to ten year timeframe. When surveyed on the barriers to continuing their formal education, the majority cited scheduling, availability and cost. When surveyed on the first choice of institution for entering a BSN program, sixty-six percent selected community college because of cost and access.

    Similar surveys have been distributed throughout Florida due to community colleges becoming four year degree granting institutions. This movement was a legislative initiative because of studies reflecting the state lagging in the number of citizens with baccalaureate degrees. While there are many examples of community colleges with strong articulations to state universities, this model has proven to be successful and cost effective. One example is a survey distributed to registered nurses, graduates and students in a two county region in Florida. Ninety-eight percent positively indicated interest for enrolling in a BSN or higher level nursing program. Of those, eighty-three percent indicated they planned to enroll within the next one to two years. When surveyed on the barriers to continuing their formal education, the majority cited scheduling, availability and cost. Another example is a survey that was distributed in a four county region of Florida. Ninety-percent positively indicated interest for enrolling in a BSN or higher level nursing program. Of those, thirty percent indicated they planned to enroll within the next one to two years and sixty-seven percent within the next three to four years. Again this population cited scheduling, availability and cost as key factors. There are many examples of data collected indicating the intent of associate degree nurses to continue their formal education and also indentifying barriers. While these are examples, they are limited to specific populations and in no way reflect the larger group of associate degree nurses.

    While the N-OADN board supports formal education and recognizes the many benefits, they also realize that barriers exist which must be addressed to strengthen articulations and increase opportunities in nursing education. The board also applauds the individual that is satisfied with providing patient care as an associated degree nurse. While the board acknowledges the dedication to nursing research by Dr. Benner and her team at the Carnegie Foundation, they also realize that a more global study must be conducted eliciting information from all levels of nursing education in order to make inferences on such important information that could impact the future of nursing education.

    Dr. Linda Miles, President
    N-OADN

  • Posted by Laughing at the Academics on January 20, 2010 at 12:45pm EST
  • As a Family Nurse Practitioner, I find this discussion a little ironic. The nursing "hoohas" are trying to move masters prepared nurses to the doctorate level to be able to practice as advanced practice nurses and they have never even been able to agree on an entry point for a brand new nurse! I remember in the early 90's when an attempt was made ... See Moreto do this. There was a shortage then and there is a shortage now. Yes, let's make it MORE DIFFICULT to become a registered nurse (ADNs are already proven to provide excellent care) and MORE DIFFICULT to become a nurse practitioner (masters prepared nurses have TOO MUCH data showing that they are effective primary caregivers). That way our aging population can suffer more by having fewer qualified individuals to care for them! Before trying to become smartypants with the DNP, try to figure out how to get your pants on first by deciding the appropriate entry level requirements for the registered nurse! And yes, I am pursuing a PhD in Nursing Education at Capella, so I understand the importance of nursing education for sure!

  • Community Collge Nursing Education
  • Posted by Audrey Green , Nursing Education at Gadsden State Community College on February 3, 2010 at 2:15pm EST
  • Having been in the nursing profession since 1979, it is my opinion that quality heath care for patient's should be a focus of improvement rather than the higher education of the nurse. After all, all RN students take the same NCLEX. Nurses today are only task oriented. We teach mind, body and spirit but it no longer exists at the bedside! There are too many patient's per nurse in most hospitals due to health care reform. If you have had a family member in the hospital recently and sat with them to watch the quality of care severly comprimized by high accuity and nurse patient ratio-you know this. The nursing profession and safe patient care is in a crisis and there is worry about how long the nurse attended school?. I suppose enrollment in the BSN program is down. If a nurse was doctorate prepared ,it would not improve the crisis at the bedside. I have a Master of Science in Nursing. I graduated Summa Cum Laude from the University of Alabama in Huntsville. I practiced for 20 years, well respected for my client care by patients, families and staff, as an ADN nurse. I now teach at the community college where I was educated and well prepared to practice as nurse, working in the Intensive Care Unit for eleven of those years. Our community college has the traditional and the nontraditional student who for vast reasons choose not to attain a bachelor degree in nursing. If the bachlor degree had been the only beginning degree in nursing, I would never have become a nurse for financialreasons, demographic location and personal preference. By the way the ADN nurse is out of the bottle and has been since the sixties and you cannot put them back in. I suppose it is the flavor of excellance.

  • the nurse and the patient
  • Posted by on my way out , MSN at Community college on February 5, 2010 at 1:30pm EST
  • I am at the end of my 45 year nursing career and have seen this whole argument (and many others) come and go. The previous comments hit on some very important facets. 1) What is most important in nursing? The answer, of course, is patient care. When there is strong research that a degree level insures good, safe patient centered care, we can all jump on that bandwagon and require that as entry level. I see no research proving that at this time. Until then, 2) let's consider: who are the nursing students, where do they live, what are the socio-economic factors for becoming a nurse, what is the motivation for nursing, and what is in place for a seamless transition up the ladder. What about age, marital staus with or without children to care for, financial constraints (personal and institutional), rural challenges, cultural and ESOL considerations, availability of campuses - and transportation to that campus. These and many more are certainly factors to take into consideration for the individual wanting to be a nurse. And as nice as the on-line programs can be, they are just not appropriate for everyone. On a personal level I was very fortunate to ladder from and LPN - ADN - BSN - MSN. Each level met my needs for that particular time of my life and afforded me the opportunity and support (financial, social and experiential) to continue up that ladder. I now teach in an ADN program. Our NCLEX scores are high - frequently surpassing the BSN programs' scores (even the private schools). We strongly encourage our grads to continue their educational journey even if it is 1 course at a time. Life-long learning and well rounded learning is good for us all. The rigors of general ed courses help us be more well-rounded as people (ie Chaucer and Shakespeare) but does that necessarily make us better nurses? I believe the jury is still out.