Some good points raised, and seconded. Our school did find a very good text in the $40 dollar range, by the way. But, how do you force students to open the book and read it? It seems to me that is the biggest problem with textbook use, in general.

Second question: when supplies and technology are not available, and textbooks offer maps and other items available on-line or with use of projectors, aren’t they worth assigning, even if only to use pictures and maps? Many of us assign the books, use them in class to take the place of technology unavailable, then make sure our examinations are constructed primarily from lecture information (remember, we found a good textbook under $40). There is always the hope one student will, under his or own volition, open the book and be fascinated to learn in more detail the subject being discussed.

No offense, but I did not want to take only my professor’s word for fact in my history classes. I will continue using the textbooks hoping some of my students feel the same way.

doc, at 7:25 am EST on March 6, 2007

trash texts!

Hip Hip Hooray! I’ve been saying this for years ... though not in print. It never occurred to me to try to write on this topic though I’ve written a great deal about content based curricular reform.

Another reason to trash the textbooks: student reading, comprehension, and critical thinking will actually improve. Imagine that. Textbooks rarely argue ... they present argument A, B and C. Primary and secondary sources are arguments, are located in a field of debate, and to comprehend these readings students slowly shift away from reading for facts. By the way, this helps their writing too.

Last, but not least: an interesting volume “The Hidden Curriculum in Higher Education” (ed. Margolis) takes up the political agenda of textbooks ... conformity at any cost (ususally over $100).

So if faculty want independent thinkers, why use textbooks?

thanks Rob for this great essay. Susan

Susan Feiner, Professor Women’s Studies and Economics at university of southern maine, at 8:16 am EST on March 6, 2007

Independent publishers offer real value

Rob and Susan,

The ‘classic’ textbook from the three big-time publishers—Pearson, McGraw-Hill, and Thomson—are indeed very (too) pricey, given the host of reasons I’ve adduced in these comments before. Don’t forsake, or encourage others to forsake, smaller, independent publishers’ fine texts which nowhere near approximate the $80+ prices of the major publishers’ books (even their BRIEF texts!). These publishers are in fact price-sensitive; don’t overload books with extravagant pedagogy; and keep overhead costs within reasonable constraints. Sure, their gross receipts are considerably lower, but someday the Goliaths will fall (hell, Thomson’s for sale!) and the Davids will be there to serve the academic profession.

The Insider, at 9:01 am EST on March 6, 2007

“To Text or Not to Text...?”

I appreciate seeing this topic raised in this forum as it is something I struggle with every semester. My answers vary, of course, mostly depending on the class, the level, the costs, and my mood. For this semester, I required a textbook; last week, we had a class discussion about why I required them to purchase a text when last semester I didn’t. (I generally have a high number of first semester students who take me for their second semester college writing course.) Their concerns about textbooks, their costs and value echo my own and Rob’s: they are exorbitantly priced, long, and boring, no matter how many colorful pictures there are (which, of course, serve to drive up the price). Moreover, the majority of them refuse to read the book at all unless I explicitly tell them the material will be on an exam.

Yet, as are many others, I am deeply concerned about this anti-textbook stance. It’s not so much an issue of whether textbooks have a value commensurate with their cost, but more one of the value of reading extended, developed, albeit perhaps boring prose. I confess to wanting to hold onto the notion that the students I help graduate from a university are capable of reading, understanding, and responding to texts of more than 300 words.

Jane Lasarenko, at 9:25 am EST on March 6, 2007

Boring? Try a good reference book

A lot of fine reference books do what textbooks do — explain complicated ideas concisely and point to place to dig deeper. The Encyclopedia of European Social History, the Encyclopedias of Religion or Sociology or Philosophy, the New Encyclopedia of the History of Ideas ... all of them are great sources. A librarian could probably help you track down relatively accessible articles written by scholars who aren’t dumbing the ideas down but do the big picture well. Many have been published in the past three or four years and they’re already paid for and sitting in your library (or on a server in the cases where the library has an online subscription).

Barbara Fister, at 9:35 am EST on March 6, 2007

Wowie.

Next we can replace teachers with videos.

Max, at 10:16 am EST on March 6, 2007

As a teacher of mathematics for 34 years, I have always found myself teaching around the text. Reviewing my notes has always been more valuable to my students than reading the text, usually because most mathematics texts are quite unreadable. The value of the textbook lies in the number of examples and practice problems found inside. If students would just show up all the time, I would only have to create the exercises for them to practice the concepts.I’m in favor of ridding ourselves of these expensive and badly written texts. Now all we have to do is create the position of Dean of Attendance at each of our institutions.

Jerry LePage, Professor of Mathematics at Bristol Community College, at 12:21 pm EST on March 6, 2007

When I quit using a text for my public speaking course I found that students learned just as much and we, students and myself, had more time to work as a team exploring great speech texts available at http://www.americanrhetoric.com/. Other materials can also be found online. It also eliminated the complaint that I couldn’t read the assigned materials because I left my textbook at ... With most materials available online (I would print them out for special circumstances) students could access them almost everywhere without carrying around heavy materials. I also had students find their own materials and make suggestions for other students. It became a joint effort. All in all it worked very well. The focus became more on active inquiry than on reading boring texts. We also devoted more time to practicing speaking in class.I’ll never use a textbook again if I can avoid it.

Angie, PhD student and instructor, at 12:21 pm EST on March 6, 2007

Teaching w/o Textbooks

I sometimes feel hampered teaching from textbooks. I am in technology and I’ve never felt comfortable citing paragraphs and demonstrating to students using the textbook. I wish our community college (poor) would develop customizable courseware instead of textbooks. We can do that through publishers, but the college & the director have never felt it worthwhile.

Sally in Chicago, at 12:21 pm EST on March 6, 2007

M.C. Smith is right to point out that good textbooks by and large do serve as useful intellectual tools, at least at the introductory level. They can also be used as points of departure from which the teachers can take the students in the direction they want. The texts lay out the received wisdom in the field, but there is enough space in the classroom to bring in different perspectives.

I am curious why nobody has mentioned the offers we get from publishers to trim down the textbook to cover the material we want. Isn’t that meant to reduce the cost and increase the probability of more efficient use of all our resources, including paper? I would like to know if anybody has found this of value.

Dismal Scientist, at 1:07 pm EST on March 6, 2007

Some good points however, I would suggest talking more closely with your college store as you may find that you have more in common than you think. Usage and relevance to the material that they will be tested on is the key. Students tell us that they are most dissatisfied with a textbook when they perceive that it was not necessary for the course. Bookstores hear more complaints about a $30-$40 book that is brought back to buyback unopened than for a $150 book that was extensively used. To their educational detriment or not, students have become very savvy as to what materials they must have to obtain a given grade in the course. From the bookstore perspective, adopt a book if will be integral to the course and your lectures. If not, consider listing it on your syllabus or webpage as supplemental or recommended reading. College bookstores, especially institutional college bookstores, are there to provide students with the services and materials they need during their college career and not simply to make a sale. If textbooks are not integral to the course, most textbook managers will tell you they would rather you forgo them or instead listed them as optional. Always consider the net cost of the material(s) for student and not simply the new book price at the shelf. Adopting a text early and using it consistently is generally the best means of reducing the cost of textbooks for students. There are now a wealth of course material options available ranging from used books (from both students on your campus and national wholesalers) to e-books and custom versions of texts. Each has its place and may or may not be cost saving or appropriate for your particular course. Your bookstore is likely eager to help you sort though available options and give you a different and hopefully less biased perspective than that of a salesperson or publisher’s representative. Finally, talk to your bookstore and see what their pricing policies are, you may be surprised to find that they offer more options and are more competitive than you think. Remember, time and an open dialog with all parties will give you and your students options.

Scott, Textbook Buyer at UCLA, at 4:30 pm EST on March 6, 2007

More Support Needed for Thesis

As someone who is less than pleased with the cost of textbooks, requires only a $5.00 textbook in his research writing class, and frequently requires no textbook in his introductory composition class, I would welcome a valid argument that allowed me to justify not requiring a textbook in my introductory history courses. Unfortunately, Rob Weir’s thesis is flawed—or at least not well enough supported—to convince me to drop the textbook from my history courses.

I have expanded on these thoughts in a blog entry located at http://www.stevenlberg.info/blog/03-06-2007.html.

Dr. Steven L. Berg, Assistant Professor of English and History at Schoolcraft College, at 10:11 pm EST on March 6, 2007

Textbook costs

Pearson-Longman (I have no financial or other interest in that company!) offers a reasonably good concise edition of Brian Levack et al., The West: Encounters & Transformations, vol. 2, in a “3-hole-punch version,” which students can keep in a three-ring binder, for the eminently reasonable price of $40.

Since it is nowadays so easy to put supplemental course materials, like primary sources and chapters from monographs, on e-reserves, which costs students nothing at all, it is quite possible to keep costs to a minimum.

Jonathan Daly, Professor of History at University of Illinois at Chicago, at 10:21 am EST on March 7, 2007

Can we get rid of literature anthologies while we’re at it? Google Books is free, has a wider range of texts, and doesn’t leave students thinking that key writers only ever wrote three pages or so...

Puplet, Anthologies, at 7:30 pm EST on March 7, 2007

Yes! Finally some common sense on textbooks.

I haven’t taught from a textbook in years. Instead, I do indeed use handouts. These aren’t outlines or PowerPoint slides; they consist of real prose, and indeed could be turned into textbooks easily if I so chose.The notes for the course I’m teaching right now sum to 10,000 words. The students either buy copies (at the cost of copying) from the campus bookstore or download from my Web page (heather.cs.ucdavis.edu/~matloff/50.html).

And you know what? I don’t write on the blackboard either. Nor do I show slides. That’s really unusual for professors in technical subjects (in my case, computer science). In lecture, I just talk about the notes! The students, freed from the burden of taking notes, can actually think about what I’m saying, and I find it much easier to engage them in dialog.

Granted, I have a luxury many do not have: I teach these courses frequently. This makes it worth the investment of time to write the notes, as I can reuse them, with that initial time investment really paying off later. Each time I teach the course, I get random inspirations for improvements, which I implement immediately for use next time, so they don’t become stale.

But certainly this approach makes sense for most people who teach required courses. I suggest that various people collaborate to build up a good set of materials.

All of this saves me a lot of time, and makes teaching all the more enjoyable. And best of all, the course materials I give to my students say what *I* want to say.

The publishers deserve a profit, of course, but their pricing in recent years has been unconscionable, and their excuses do not withstand close scrutiny. It really is high time that we bypass them.

Norm Matloff Professor of Computer Science UC Davismatloff@cs.ucdavis.edu

Norm Matloff, Professor of Computer Science at UC Davis, at 1:21 am EST on March 9, 2007

Teaching without textbooks

Currently I have courses with and without texts. Courses w/o text allow my students to purchase software instead. I prefer to create powerpoints of my knowledge of the subject matter. I forward these powerpoints before class to my students. This allows my students to follow along in class and not have to take as many notes. They can catch up if they miss a step. They appreciate the references at test time. For me this currently works until I find something better.

Mary

Mary Cass, at 12:25 pm EST on March 9, 2007

textbooks necessary ONLY for math and science

My experience as a college student was this: in math and science courses the textbooks were absolutely necessary. Ridiculously over-priced, but necessary. There was so much detail and there were so many pieces of information to be learned and memorized that the instructors could really only cover the theory and the basic info in lecture. It was up to the students to pretty much memorize the text, to teach ourselves the information inside and out. But that was only in math and science courses.

In any non-science courses, I never felt the text was necessary. Oddly enough, the better and the more engaged the instructor, the less the text was used. When I ended up in a class being taught by an amazing instructor, the text was either not on the book list at all, or was just there as a curriculum after-thought. The students would use the text as an encyclopedia, pretty much just looking pertinent pieces of info in the index and reading the description, learning that tiny bit, and closing the book right back up.

Is the test of a necessary text whether or not the student sells it back to the campus bookstore at the end of the term? I still have all of my math and science texts. They were important enough that I bought them new and kept them. I never purchased a new non-science text, rarely opened it unless I was reading an assigned chapter or looking something up in the index, and knew I would be selling it right back to the bookstore at the end of the term. My math and science books are well-used, taken care of, memorized and I can’t bear to throw them out.

alexa harrington, at 6:46 pm EDT on March 11, 2007

Textbooks are fine

The majority of the textbooks are really good and helpful. They mostly state true statements and make it a lot easier to learn. Some people have a hard time taking notes or paying attention to every word that the teacher is saying. With a textbook if you dont understand you can always go back and look in it when ever you want. You say that the textbooks are boring and long,but i can name a few teachers that were so boring and would never shut their mouths. I would be writting and then start falling asleep. then i would wake up and we would already be on the next chapter. If i fall asleep on my book it would be impossible to miss a chapter. I can just get right back to where i left off.

Michael Holt, at 5:45 am EDT on March 22, 2007

I find it amazing, or perhaps I shouldn’t, that so many professors who have posted on this list, make sweeping generalizations about all textbooks. Clearly, there are lousy textbooks, great textbooks and everything in between. The challenge is to find and select the great ones.

It is appropriate to generalize that there are advantages and disadvantages of textbooks by virtue of being a textbook, and to be clear what is their purpose and role relative to other assigned readings.

In the social sciences and humanities, I think it would be inappropriate for a textbook to be the only assigned reading. However, it can certainly play a useful role introducing context, themes, describing major schools of thought and points of disagreement. It’s the meta-analysis. Such courses should certainly include and even emphasize a variety of other types of material including primary sources, literature, etc.

I don’t consider anthologies to be textbooks, but personally like anthologies if for no other reason than the convenience of having the material bounds together in a more readable physical package than lots of loose printouts or worse, trying to read it all on a screen.

I once took at biology of cancer course in which the assigned readings included a textbook (that covered the basic scientific concepts), a reading called Diary of an Illness (that covered much of the socio-emotional aspects through a first-hand account), and multiple journal articles available over the web. It was an ideal mix.

Suggestion for a great American history text that is comprehensive, up-to-date, well written, and relatively concise: American Destiny: Narrative of a Nation by Carnes & Garraty. Two volumes one for each “half” of American history. The paperback versions are about $40. It also includes some chapters focused on socio-cultural history and it seeks to be inclusive of under-represented cultures and perspectives.

John S, at 1:51 pm EDT on April 9, 2007